[Knucklesup]

I absolutely love my hill topper lithium, but it seems that after about 6 miles of moderate use (peddling with assist going up hills) I am losing a lot of speed. It only cruses at 9 mph and doesn't have the pick up and go that I started with. The check battery lights will say everything from 3/4 to 4/4 for the battery. Would the battery itself be defective?

Thanks

[Jacob]

Knucklesup, I just got my own hilltopper. What stopped working? the battery? the motor? and what did you send back to fix? just the battery or the whole kit? Also did you have to pay for shipping costs and such?

[Rockingoutlive]

I just recently purchased one of these hilltoper kits with the lithium ion pack and have seen the same issues. The get up and go, went. I started to notice issues in less than one month.

I received the kit in the beginning of October and three days ago it just quit working on my way to the gas station ironically. I checked the battery, full. So I went home and sent an email to "Mike", I still have not heard a response.

I started to notice unfamiliar noises about three weeks into using the bike daily, then power loss on 2 mile trips to work. I felt it was because the weather is getting colder and affecting either the battery or motor. All i could do was ride it out and see what happened. I noticed the post dates, we all seem to have bought our kits around the same time. I ordered my kit in late September, then received it early October. It is now Nov 29, The kit failed on the 24th. so that was roughly a 56 day run before it died.

Lets assume we all received a bad batch of motors and or batteries. The guy in the shop just got divorced and didn't give a dam that day. It is all i can figure from what is posted on the forum as we are the only few who have seen issues. I assume there will be more.

I Hope you all opted in for the lifetime warranty as it seems to have been a good investment. I am going to ship mine back for this and cross my fingers that this is a reputably company. I noticed that there is no information about the warranty anywhere on the website or with the paperwork that it was shipped with. All I got was an address to ship it back to for warranty work.

[immyfish]

My Hilltopper is en route to be delivered today.

[Rockingoutlive]

this is a great investment, don't be discouraged by a few lemons on the tree. The kit is really great and has the least cost, setup time, and does work well generally. if you got the lifetime warranty you should be OK if something does happen... hopefully

[Jacob]

Sup guys! I had my kit since Oct. and it was running as advertised on my non disc brake bike, since I couldn't fit it on the disc brake one without a little modification. I was so in love with it that I ordered a second battery for longer rides. Well guess what? After a bit of filing to widen my fork drop outs and finding a correct size washer, I got the Hilltopper to fit on my disc brake bike, nicely and flush!

At first after moving the motorized wheel to the disc brake bike, the motor felt weaker for some reason and I was so bummed, but I noticed that there was only 1 of 4 indicator lights so I charged up the battery and mounted the speedometer I had on the previous bike and took it for another test ride with the finalized setup on the disc brake one. I still hit 15 to 18 mph on average on flat terrain and I've learned to use the motor as an "assist" instead of just depending on the little guy to do all the work.

Anyway, I'm sorry to hear of the malfunctions and I hope Mike will address this issue and update our forum community. Sometimes I do notice inconsistencies with power and that after awhile I don't have the "kick" that I started out with and when I feel the hub motor, where the wiring comes out, it gets a little warm to the touch, so I just let it cool off for awhile and when I ride again I got that "kick" back.

I am worried about the reports of malfunctions and I did get a lifetime warranty on my order, although mines still performs as advertised. I'm anxiously waiting to see how Cleanrepublic responds to this thread and I'm hopeful they will honor the lifetime warranty on their product for customers who unfortunately did receive a "lemon".

Let it be known though, Immyfish, the Hilltopper is a great kit that's simple to install. It is an "assist" though so don't expect it to change your bike into a rocket ship. With the experience I've had so far with the motor, I can offer these tips that will help you guage and appreciate the motor more. Get yourself a bicycle computer that gives you speed and distance. This way you'll know the hilltopper is giving you what was promised which is 15+ mph. The 20 mile range is just theoretical. Realistically 13-16 miles before you start to notice a subtle loss in "assist" power. AND one tip I have to say that seems so trivial, but how much difference it makes in performance, is how important it is to inflate your tire to the suggested psi. I've been riding around without realizing this until I got a flat, and bought me a tire air guage. Believe me you'll want to invest in one. Have fun with your Hilltopper and hopefully you don't get a defective one.

[Knucklesup]

Well, to answer some questions quickly, Yes I did have to pay shipping back, it wasn't much just a flat rate box and they paid shipping back. It took about 2 weeks to get the battery pack and wiring back from them though. Mike said that it was a circuit or something that went bad and they replaced it. When I got it back it started working normally again. Now after having it back for about 4 weeks now I am having another issue (not to discourage anyone). It started to rain on my commute and the motor just stopped working while under normal use. (note: I do this 19 mile round trip once a day) This just happened today so I am going to let it dry and see if it fixes itself or if I need to call them again. When I bought the unit they were not offering the life time warranty and I think I really want to push for old customers to be able to buy it because it seems the more I use it the more I see go wrong with it... But still I LOVE the hilltopper and would not trade it for anything else.

[Mike]

Hi Guys,

Crazy times here. Sorry for not responding sooner. We've recently hired some new employees as well as switching to a new web and accounting system to handle all the great (and sometimes stressful!) demand for the kits. Immifish, sorry again for the delay.

So, this is a very good discussion, both for new and existing customers. We may soon create a "Hill Topper maintenance" forum so we can all discuss the down and dirty mechanics and chemistry, troubleshooting, and maybe even system mods without overwhelming new/researching customers just browsing the FAQ list...

The hardest thing for most batteries to do (especially small vehicle lithium batteries) is dump out a huge amount of power into your application in a short time. Many people get hung up on charging times or regimens, but the big thing to look out for is how much "strain" (discharge rate) you're putting on your battery.

For example, if you're stopped in the middle of a steep hill, and you turn on your motor, point the bike straight up the hill, and don't pedal at all, the battery would be needing to not only accelerate you up to speed but also keep you climbing (this is just an extreme example for the sake of discussion). This would put a huge power spike on the system. The battery is rated at a whopping 42A (5C) max discharge, and it will try as hard as it can to move the motor in whatever situation, but it will degrade the battery life quickly when hammered on like that.

The normal 'rated' power output for these batteries is the power required to cruise someone along at 15mph on flat ground with high pressure tires in no wind, with no pedaling. Now again that's just another textbook example for the sake of description. The thing IS called the Hill Topper right? Ok, so the point is if you operate the kit in ways that are as gentle as possible in terms of discharge required, and especially power spikes, you will get the longest possible battery life.

So, if you are sharing the load of pedaling up a hill, such that your battery is only needing to put out a load very similar to when it's just cruising you along the flat ground with NO pedaling, this will give you a "normal" battery life. If you pedal very little going up a steep hill and ask the battery to put out an "above normal" rate of power then it will, but the result will be a "shorter than normal" battery life. Likewise, if you can find techniques to "baby your battery" you could just as well have a "longer than normal" battery life.

Some basic techniques (some or all of which you might already be using):

-Ride your bike like you always have, engage the motor to regulate how tired you get, as opposed to engaging the motor to drive you around streets and trails like a motorcycle.

-Try what I call "long pulses" of 2-3 minute continuous motor engagements, interspersed with at least a 30-second "rest" where you're not engaging the motor. This both gives the battery a rest and also lets you cover ground and make time along your route without using any more of the stored energy. Even if you feel tired and you can't comfortably pedal as fast as you'd like to be going without the motor, keep pedaling only at that rate that you ARE comfortable instead of "coasting." Ok, without the motor, maybe you're speed will slowly be dropping, but you may cover another 500 feet of trail or road before before you get TOO slow, at which point you can engage the motor again to raise your average speed back up. Even one of the 10-mile SLA batteries used in this way can make for a very comfortable 15-mile ride, while still giving the fun psychological feeling of having "used the motor a lot." Yes, someone might argue that keeping the motor always spinning at the highest possible RPM and never slowing down is more 'efficient' but that's one of what I call the "Magic Frictionless Velodrome" concepts, and I just don't buy it in terms of practical day-to-day riding around town.

-If you are going to lean on your battery more heavily on one part of your route than another, try to help with your legs as much as possible during accelerations. Accelerating requires much more power over a short amount of time than maintaining a cruising speed, resulting in a spike in power required, and can make your battery work harder than at its 'healthy' rate.

Having said all that, as noted by a few of you, yes we do sell a ton of these things and there will always be this or that issue that crops up in one system or another, but that's why we have our warranty policies and stand firmly behind the product to keep you guys up and running.

I have some testing data that we did in the lab and I'll post it soon when I get a chance because it will make for really good discussion on this issue and will lead in to the charging questions that pop up as well.

Looking forward to building up the forum with y'all!

Mike

[mikewats]

I bought the Life time warranty. Do I receive any paper work?

Mike W

[cbsskp]

I do not have the lithium battery with my Hilltopper. I have the regular battery because i am 80 and do not travel more than 10 miles on one ride. So far, it works and recharges just fine. I am thinking about getting a second regular battery as a backup. I know they are heavier, but I have a Schwinn Tricycle and I could carry it in the basket in back. I really would like to see a solar charger that could be used while riding. Read in another forum here that Clean Replublic is working on one. I must say that this e-conversion is just wonderful. Happy Riding everyone. Carol

[BIGEE774]

I just received my hill topper with the standard SLA battery one question i have is how do i determine if my battery is completely depleted ? i understand then when the battery is connected to the charger and then to an outlet and switching the battery ON (red showing) the light on the charger turns red for charging but is there anyway to know if the bettery is completely drained through those LEDS ? ...ALso just want to get something straight because im a little confused...in terms of battery life (SLA) with the 400 recharge cycles does this mean that after 400 recharge cycles the battery may not operate as efficiently ? Also mike you mentioned an example of going up a hill not pedaling at all in terms of battery life when that much strain is put does this pertain to overall battery life or does this mean battery life throughout your trip until you recharge again ? a quick response well appreciated thanks